Our Family In Ukraine: Where were they born?

Dear cousins,

The answer to "Where were they born?" is not so difficult. The short answer is:

Proskurov for the Sobles (but Mogilev Podolskiy for Isaac Soble).
Zaslav, Nikolayev, Krasilov, or Medvedovka for everyone else.

We have quite a bit of evidence:

First, there is no disagreement that the Soble homes is Proskurov.

The passenger list summary for Bertha Oberman clearly says Zaslav:

(http://www.dankazez.com/photos-family/OberBerthaBoat.jpg)

Ten people were on that boat with Bertha:

(http://www.dankazez.com/photos-family/ObSt-pass.jpg)

Eveyone on the boat is listed as "born in Zaslav":

(http://www.dankazez.com/photos-family/ObSt-pass.birth.jpg)

Notice that the family had a strong connection to Nikolayev, which was listed as the last residence for all of the Oberman-Steins:

(http://www.dankazez.com/photos-family/ObSt-pass.res.jpg)

And now look at the death certificate for Eva Liss Oberman--as prepared by Harry Talman, husband of Bertha. It shows clearly that she was born in Nikolayev:

(http://www.dankazez.com/photos-family/ObermanEva.DeathCert.jpg)

But now we have a little conflict: Was husband Schmuel Oberman born in Krasilov? (That town is very near Zaslav.) Here is his 1930 death certificate:

(http://www.dankazez.com/photos-family/OberShm.DeatCert.jpg)

Surely, the support for Zaslav is huge. Note this WWII draft document for Ascher Goldfine, first cousin of Bertha Oberman Talman, Molly Oberman Soble, etc:

:
(http://www.dankazez.com/photos-family/drft/AschGold.jpg)

It is Herman Oberman who wrote that he was born in Medvedovka--also a city in the area of our towns:

(http://www.dankazez.com/photos-family/drft/HermOber.jpg)

Jacob Oberman, brother of Samuel, has "Zitoma" listed on his passenger-list record. That probably actually means Zhitomir. But we should disregard this, because people leaving Europe often gave as their city of origin a large city near their actual city of origin.

:
(http://www.dankazez.com/photos-family/OberJac.BoatResBirth.jpg)

Notice how close all of our Ukraine cities are. (Below, "Iz'aslav" refers to Zaslav.)

:
(http://userpages.wittenberg.edu/dkazez/fam/city/UkrMap.gif)

So, back to the beginning. This is my vote for our family birth documents:

Proskurov for the Sobles (but Mogilev Podolskiy for Isaac Soble).
Zaslav, Nikolayev, Krasilov, or Medvedovka for everyone else.

Daniel Kazez

P.S. Here is a list of all of our family who for sure were born in Ukraine:

Chaim-Hyman Lipah? OBERMAN (died in Ukraine)
& Rachel OBERMAN (died in Ukraine)
  born. Krislovy/Kresilov or Medvedovka (Volynia)
|---Schmul-Shmuel OBERMAN
|-----born. 1850, Zaslaw or Krislovy/Kresilov 
|-----note. Cigar maker.  To USA 1909.  Last in Zaslaw.
|---& Chave (LISS) OBERMAN
|-----born. 1851, Zaslaw or Mikolaiev
|-----note1. Father of Chave:  Shaya LISS, died in Ukraine.
|-----note2. Mother of Chave:  Bertha LISS, died in Ukraine.
|-----note3. To USA 1909.  Last in Zaslaw.
|---|---Yenta-Jente (OBERMAN) STEIN
|---|-----born. 15 Mar 1876, Zaslaw
|---|---& Mordachai-Motel STEIN
|---|-----born. 15 Mar 1868 or 1876, Mikolajew or Pruskorow
|---|-----note. To USA 1907.  Last in Mikolajev.
|---|-----married. abt 1892
|---|---|---Schlome-Shmuel STEIN
|---|---|-----born. 12 Jul 1896, Zaslaw or Nicholiev
|---|---|---Feidel-Ephraim STEIN
|---|---|-----born. 15 Apr 1898, Zaslaw or Proskurov
|---|---|---Ruchel STEIN
|---|---|-----born. 24 Dec 1903, Zaslaw
|---|---|---Sure STEIN
|---|---|-----born. 2 Jan 1906, Zaslaw
|---|---|---Pessel STEIN
|---|---|-----born. 1 Jun 1908, Zaslaw
|---|---Malke (OBERMAN) SOBLE
|---|-----born. 1880, probably Zaslaw
|---|---& Itzok-Yitzchak SOBLE
|---|-----born. 1867, Moguliev
|---|-----note1. Father of Itzok: Efraim/Friedel SOBLE, died Ukraine.
|---|-----note2. Mother of Itzok: Malke SOBLE, died Ukraine.
|---|-----note3. 1st wife of Itzok: Tziporah KAUFMAN (died 1901, Ukraine).
|---|-----married. 1901, Proskurov?
|---|---|---Chaie SOBLE, mother = Tziporah (KAUFMAN) SOBLE
|---|---|-----born. 6 Dec 1887/9, Proskurov
|---|---|---Sholom Fridel SOBLE, mother = Tziporah (KAUFMAN) SOBLE
|---|---|-----born. 12 Oct 1890, Proskurov
|---|---|---Yekel SOBLE, mother = Tziporah (KAUFMAN) SOBLE
|---|---|-----born. abt 1893, probably Proskurov
|---|---|---Moses SOBLE, mother = Tziporah (KAUFMAN) SOBLE
|---|---|-----born. 1 Oct 1894, probably Proskurov
|---|---|---Israel SOBLE, mother = Tziporah (KAUFMAN) SOBLE
|---|---|-----born. abt 1896/8, probably Proskurov
|---|---|---Rivke SOBLE, mother = Tziporah (KAUFMAN) SOBLE
|---|---|-----born. 20 Mar 1901, probably Proskurov
|---|---|---Saie-Suje SOBLE, mother = Malke (OBERMAN) SOBLE
|---|---|-----born. 15 May 1901, Proskurov
|---|---|---Chaie SOBLE, mother = Malke (OBERMAN) SOBLE
|---|---|-----born. May 1905, Proskurov?
|---|---Jossel OBERMAN
|---|-----born. 8 Feb 1886, Zaslaw
|---|---Jankel OBERMAN
|---|-----born. 24 Mar 1886, Zaslaw or Medvelivky
|---|---Henach OBERMAN
|---|-----born. 1 Jan 1892, Medvedenky/Mdewedovka or Zaslaw
|---|---Feige?-Fannie OBERMAN
|---|-----born. 20 Apr 1894, Zaslaw
|---|---Brone OBERMAN
|---|-----born. 6 Mar 1895, Zaslaw
|---|---Leah-Leike OBERMAN
|---|-----born. 25 Jan 1896, Zaslaw 
|---|---Schie OBERMAN
|---|-----born. 10 Nov 1898, Zaslaw
|---Yakov-Jacob Israel OBERMAN
|-----born. ? 1849-52, Zaslaw
|---& 1. Yetta (?name?) OBERMAN
|-----note. Died or divorced before 1888.
|---|---Fannie (OBERMAN) GOLDFINE
|---|-----born. Mar 1866 or 1870, Zaslaw?
|---|---& Leibe GOLDFINE
|---|-----born. Jan 1866, Russia
|---|-----married. 1884
|---|---|---Ester Hirsch GOLDFINE
|---|---|-----born. 27 Jun 1885, Zaslaw
|---|---Aron OBERMAN
|---|-----born. 6 Jul 1881, Zaslaw or Medvedivka
|---|---[Jossel] Joseph-Joe OBERMAN
|---|-----born. 15 Aug 1884, Kowno?
|---Yakov-Jacob Israel OBERMAN*
|-----born. ? 1849-52, Zaslaw
|---& 2. Sprinza-Sarah (Gomkovoy or Goncavoi) OBERMAN
|-----born. 1867-70
|-----married. 1888
|---|---Hinda? OBERMAN
|---|-----born. 1889?
|---|---Malke? OBERMAN
|---|-----born. 7 Jan 1891, Zaslaw
|---|---Leib OBERMAN
|---|-----born. 12 Sep 1896, Zaslaw
|---|---Shmuel? OBERMAN
|---|-----born. 7 Oct 1897
|---|---Yetta OBERMAN
|---|-----born. ? 20 Sep 1898
|---?name? (OBERMAN) AXMANN
|---& Pinic AXMANN
|-----note1. Brother-in-law of Shmuel OBERMAN and Eva OBERMAN.
|-----note2. 1909: in Mikolaiev.