Our Lis Family in Ukraine in the 1800s

Our Lis Family in Ukraine in the 1800s

Click here for details on our Oberman family tree.

Click here to see our names in handwritten Cyrillic, in a document from the 1800s.

1834 document
#260, Mordko Gersh Berkovich Lys 40 years old [= b 1794], wife Rana Lys 39 [=b 1795]; four children:
• Shaya 15 [= b 1819]
• Nuhim 4 [= b 1830]
• Hana Beila 3 [= b 1831]
• Etya 2 [= b 1832].

1834 Nikolayev census (Mortko Gersh as head)
Mortko Gersh Berkovich Lis 42 [= b 1792]; two children:
• Shaia Lis 15 [= b 1819]
• Nuhim 8 [= b 1828].

1838 Nikolayev census (Berko as head)
Aba Lis 21 [= b 1817] and Yankel Lis 20 [= b 1818] listed as grandsons of Berko Lis, but no father is listed.

1838 Nikolayev census (Mortko Gersh as head)
Mortko Gersh Berkovich Lis 44 [= b 1794]; two children:
• Shaia Lis 19 [=b 1819]
• Nuhim 8 [= b 1830].

The five sons of Mortko Gersh Lis (as listed in the documents below)
Shaya, Nuhim, Tsalya, Aba, Yankel; and Itsko.

Below, highlighting in bold indicates especially important statements. Such highlighting does not exist in the original document.

21 October 1842 Document
Ministry of Internal Affairs
Department of executive police
21 October 1842

To sir military governor of Kiev and to sir governor-general of Podolia and Volin'.

The citizen* of Proskurovsky uyezd,** settlement of Nikolayev, the Jew Mordka Gersh Lis, applied to me with a request in which he solicits for considering his family by the census [revizskiye skazky] separately.

Sending this request, in original, to Your Excellency, I ask you, dear sir, to provide to the petitioner Lis lawful satisfaction, in case his request is correct and then through whom it should be announced, at that to recover from him (to the treasury) 60 kopecks of silver for a sheet of ordinary paper he used in the Ministry that entrusted to me, for execution of his request, instead of officially stamped paper.

Minister of Internal Affairs.

* "Meshchanin": town dweller.
** "Uyezd": smallest administrative division in nineteenth-century Russia.

4 November 1842 Document
4 November 1842

From the military governor of Kamenets town and civil governor of Volin'.

Concerning the covering letter to me from sir Minister of Internal Affairs about request of the townsman of Proskurovsky uyezd, town of Nikolayev, the Jew Mordka Gersh Lis, who solicits for considering his family by the census [revizskiye skazky] separately, I have the honor to ask you, dear sir, to send it back and to afford me correspondent report and yours, dear sir, conclusion.

Signature: governor-general Bibikov.

8 December 1842 Document
From [working as] Military Governor of town Kamenets
and Podolsky Civil Governor

8 December 1842

To sirs Kyivan military and Podolian and Volinian governor-general

Giving herewith the requests, that were sent back with Your Excellency's statement from 4 November #11440, of the townsman of Nikolayev town, the Jew Mortka Gersh Lis, which solicits for considering his family by the census [revizskiye skazky] separately, I have the honor to inform that this Jew really made a request to the Podolian Province Government concerning this subject. The Government, knowing that according to the Internal Affairs Ministry's enactment about the invariability of the Jewish census [Jewish revizskiye skazky], it is forbidden to make alterations in census, and according to the State Council's resolution, that was highly confirmed in 1839, it was ordered to make out regular lists corresponding to the census, --reported about that to the State Chamber [Kazenaya Palata]. But the Chamber did not find the opportunity to cancel its resolution about the addition of another two numbers to the family of Jew Lis.

This present condition belongs to the number of those, about which I had the honor to report to Your Excellency my conclusion on 27 November, #24276, I mean the case of the complaint of the Jews from Nemirov town about joining them in one family. Repeating the same clauses that were cited in the foregoing passage, I suppose that the family of the Jew from Nikolayev town, Mortka Gersh Lis, that was shown in the census of 1834 separately, should not be joined to any other number; moreover, the State Chamber [Kazenaya Palata] of Podolia frequently makes suppositions about joining and division of Jewish families in the census; therefore, it would be more appropriate to the State Chamber to confirm the invariability of the census [revizskiye skazki].

Signature: Major General Radischev.

5 March 1843 Document--precise translation #1
From [working as ] Military Governor of town Kamenets
and Podolsky Civil Governor

5 March 1843

To sir Kyivan military and Podolian and Volinian governor-general

Executing the order of Your Excellency from 13 January, #381 I demanded from the State Chamber [Kazenaya Palata] of Podolia the report about the reasons of joining, according to census [revizskiye skazki], of two numbers to the family of Nikolayev's townsman the Jew Mortka Gersh Lis.

The Chamber informed me that September 1840 the regional functionary reported to the Chamber, that the ex-kahal of Nikolayev town, the Jew Mortko Gersh Lis had five sons: Sheya, Nuhim, Tsal', Abu and Jankel', but during the 8th general census, being at the head of the kahal in that town, he was trying to protect his children from the liability of military service with the help of cheating; that is why the compilers of census [revizskiye skazki], who are dead now, recorded his sons in three numbers separately: Shaya and Nuhim with #248, and the other two sons were prescribed to Lis's father, Berk [Yankelevich? Yakovich?] Lisker (who is dead now), with #240; and that is why other families, that are written after Lis's family, had to carry out the liability for military service. Comparing the report of the regional functionary and the census of 1834, where the Lis's family was really registered in three numbers, the State Chamber (Kazenaya Palata), according to the determination from 26 March 1841, united this family into one number; and then, when the Government of Province in it's statement, as it was reported by me to Your Excellency on 8 December 1842 #25173, demanded to separate this family, the State Chamber answered, that have no right to do it mainly because of such circumstances: the Chamber in its present activity was guided by the permission of Your Excellency about the family of the Jew Moshko Zaydman from Kamenets, that was united in the same way. This permit was sent in order of Your Excellency to my assistant on 16 September 1841 #14431 and he passed it to the State Chamber.

Without taking into consideration those statements, that caused the joining of the Jew Zaydman's family in census, my point of view is permanent: otherwise we have to correct all Jewish censuses [revizskiye skazki] in this province, or we do not have to allowed this private change because it can provoke only abuses in the Jewish communities, and difficulties and discomfort for the authorities. I consider it an honour to report about it to Your Excellency as an addition to my statement from 8 December 1842 #15173, presenting the petition of the Jew Mortko Lis.

Signature: general major Radischev

5 March 1843 Document, precise translation #2
[THE FORM FIELDS AND STAMP:]
The Office of Kiev Military, Podolsky and Volyn Governor-General.
[Untranslatable line, regarding the type of paper/document]
#6236
5 March 1843

Executive of duty of
Military Governor of
Kamenets Town
and
Podolsky Civilian
Governor

Kamenets-Podolsky

[Page 1:]
To Mister Kiev Military, Podolsky and Volyn governor-general.

By performing your order of 13 Jan, #381, I have requested from the Podolsky State House the information about the reasons to join two numbers [family units] of the family of Nikolayev Jew Mortko Gersh Lis according to revision [draft/military/conscription] report.

The State House notifies me that in September of 1840 the Proskurov Regional Ispravnik [police/gendarme*] informed the House that former Nikolaev Kagal [Kahal] member Jew Mortko Gersh Lis has five sons: Shaya, Nuhim, Tsal, Aba and Yankel, but during the 8th population census by being part of the Kagal [Kahal] there, with his dexterity, had been trying to save his children from military service, and for this reason the persons responsible for reports, now dead, had registered his sons in three numbers, Shaya and Nuhim under #260, [Itsko] had been registered with his uncle Shaya Berkovich Lisker (who was already dead at that time) [Page 2:] under #248, and Aba and Yankel had been registered with the father of Lis, Berk <second name is illegible> Lisker (already dead) under #240; and because of this the military service obligation had passed to other families that are obligatory after Lis. By comparing the report of the Ispravnik with revision reports of 1834 in which the Lis' family is registered within three numbers, The State House has joined this family on 26 March 1841 and then, when Regional Administration according to the reasons described by me for you in 8 December 1842 #25173 requested to split the family specified, the House said they do not have a right to do that, [illegible word] because [the following text is very hard to read] in its current action the House took into account your permission for the family of Kamenets Jew [first name is illegible] Seidman that had been joined in the same way. This permission was made in the order to my predecessor in 16 September 1841 #14431 and it was forwarded by him to the State House.

Not considering the reasons for the joining the family of Jew Seidman, I think that either all Jewish revision reports [Page 3:] in the Region must be fixed or exceptional fixes must not be allowed, since it causes only misuse in Jewish societies, and inconveniencies and difficulties for authorities. I have the honor to tell you about this as an addition to my request in 8 December 1842 #25173 presenting the request of Jew Mortko Lis.

Major General Radishev

[*] "Ispravnik": old Russian word meaning low-level police or gendarme, primarily a rural official entrusted to enforce the law in general and spy on political subversives

5 March 1843 Document, loose translation
Document 6236, 13 January 1842?; and document 381; Podolsk State Chamber; regarding joining family of Mortk Gersh Lis, citizen of Nikolaev. The State Chamber informed me that in Sept 1840 former Nikolaev kagal member Jew Mordko Gersh Lis had 5 sons--Shaya, Nuhim, Tsalya, Aba, Yankel. He could help his children to avoid military service, because he was a kagal member. During the 8th general census they tried to manipulate the process, to avoid military draft. Using the fact that the official responsible for the census had died, Mortka Gersh wrote his sons under three numbers separately, Shaya and Nuhim under # 260 [qv]. Itsko was registered as a member of uncle Shaya Berkovich Lisker's family (#248; he was dead at that time). Aba and Yankel were registered as members of Berko Iosiovich Lisker's family (#240; he was Lis's father and also dead at that time). Upon recognizing the problem after reading the report and comparing the information in the report with the census record of 1834 in which the family of Lis indeed was written under three numbers the State Chamber decided on March 26, 1841 to join the family in question because when the Provincial Government in my representation to your honor on 8 December 1842 # 25173 demanded separation of the family in question, then the State Chamber responded that they have no right to do that because of a precedent in which your honor permitted another Jew from Kamenetz district Mosh Zaidman which is joined in the same manner. The permit in question was sent by your honor to my predecessor on 16 September 1841 # 14431 and was sent to the State Chamber by our office. Further, Treasury Administration didn't correct information and didn't unite the family when they had discovered forgery. However, nothing might be corrected in order to avoid a mess. Regardless of the decision on the Jew Zaidman, I remain of the opinion that the Jewish military registration in general needs corrections because making exception will lead to difficulties for the government. I am honored to send to your honor in addition to my official decision of December 8, 1842 # 25173 the petition of the Jew Lis."

6 April 1843 Document
Administration of . Military Governor of Kiev
Podolsky and Volynsky Governor-general
6 April 1843

St.-Petersburg
To sir Minister of Internal Affairs
Dear Sir,

Lev Alekseevich,

Receiving with the letter of Your Excellency from 21 October of last year [1842] #5491, the request of the Jew Mortka Gersh Lis about considering his family in regular lists separately, as it written in the census [revizskiye skazki], I demanded corresponding information and from the report of the acting Podolian governor, that I have received now, it turned out that the family of the Jew Lis, that consists of five sons, according to the last census of 1834 was really written in three numbers, according to the Podolian State Chamber; receiving the report of functionary from Proskurov about this, the family was united into one by the decision from 26 March 1841. The Jew Lis complained on this decision to the Podolian province authorities that considered that by the statement of the Minister of Internal Affairs, which answered on the proposition about invariability of the Jewish census, that it is forbidden to change them, and by the opinion of the State Council, that was Highly improved in 1839, it is ordered to make out regular lists according to census, and the State Chamber was informed about it, but the Chamber considered not in its right to change this statement about joining of Lis's family into one.

Perceiving that the family of the Jew Lis could be prescribed in the census in different numbers with the help of some cheating to avoid liability for military service, but as far as the next lists, according to the Highest commend, should be made up and based on census, and to make private changes of census is undoubtedly inconvenient because it can provoke only abuses in the Jewish communities and difficulties for the authorities, at that any kind of this changes is forbidden by the Ministry of Internal Affairs, --then, because of these arguments I admit that the request of the Jew Lis has to be satisfied, but I do not think I have the right to change the resolution of the State Chamber, I have the honor to report about it for discussion of Your Excellency, sending back the request of Lis.

Please, take the assurance in my complete respect by my own devotion.

Signature: Dmitry Bibikov

24 April 1844 Document
Ministry of Internal Affairs
Department of executive police
24 April 1844

#2071

To sirs Kyivan Military Governor, Podolian and Volinian governor-general

Perceiving from the testimonial of Your Excellency concerning the request of the Jew Lis, about keeping his family in different numbers in census [revizskiye skazki], as it was showed in the census of 8th inspection, and additional information that I demanded from the acting Military governor of Kamenets town and Podolian civil governor, that this family did not ask for proper permission on its division, it is easy to see that this division was not made earlier then 1823, --I ask you, Your Excellency, to make, in case if this information would be correct, an order about joining of the Lis's family in the last list in one number following the same arguments, that were stated in details in my statement from 13 November 1843 #6068 concerning the same case about correction of the regular books of Jewish community and about the following announcement to a petitioner, demanding 1 ruble of silver for two sheets of ordinary paper, that were used in the Ministry that entrusted to me, instead of officially stamped paper.

Minister of Internal Affairs.

14? 24? May 1844 Document
14 May 1844
Sankt-Petersburg

From Military governor of Kamenets town and Podolian civil governor

The Minister of Internal Affairs after examining the information that was delivered by me, concerning the request of the Jew Lis about keeping his family in different numbers in census [revizskiye skazki], as it was showed in census of 8th inspection, taking into consideration that this family did not asked for a proper permission on its division, and it is easy to see that this division was not accomplished earlier then 1823 from last 24 April, --I ask you, Your Excellency, to make, in case if this information would be correct, an order about joining of the Lis's family in the next list in one number following the same arguments that were stated in details in my statement on 13 November 1843 concerning the same case about correction of the regular books of Jewish community and about the following announcement to a petitioner.

1851 census
Mordko Gersh Berkovich Lis 57 [= b 1794]; four children
• Aba Lis 34 [= b 1817]
• Shaya Lis 32 [= b 1819]
• Tsal Lis 29 [= b 1822]
• Nuhim Lis, drafted in 1842.

The 1875 Nikolayev census
Our Lis and Lisker families as they appeared in this 1875 census in Ukraine:

The Nikolayev 1875 Census

Main doc (item A, perm res of Nikolayev)

Page number	Census sequential numbering of persons	Number according to revision list	Child number	Surname	Given name	Father’s given name	Main doc: Age as shown in 1871 revision list	Main doc: Age by birth cert, merchant or bourgeois cert or by another doc	Main doc: [Age] by appearance/looks

4	29	142		LYS	Shaya Mordkovich	Mordka	56	55	56
4	30	142		LYS	Mendel	Shaya	25	24	22
4	31	142		LYS	Mordka	Shaya		16	16
4	32	142		LYS	Yos	Mendel		4	4

8	63	141		LYS	Yankel Mordka Gershkovich	Gersh	57	56	56
8	64	141		LYS	Itsek	Yankel Mordka	35	34	34
8	65	141		LYS	Srul	Yankel Mordka		1	1
8	66	141		LYS	Mordka Gersh	Yankel Mordka		14	16
8	67	142		LYS	Gersh	Aba		14	16

17	159	79		LYSKER	Borukh Moyshe Yankelevich	Yankel	56	55	55
17	160	79	1	LYSKER	Khaim	Borukh Moyshe	32	31	31
17	161	79		LYSKER	Yos	Khaim		4	5
17	162	79	2	LYSKER	Shaya Iser	Borukh Moyshe	21	21	21

35	354			LYSKER	Borukh Srul Froim-Itskovich	Itsek	32	31	31
35	355			LYSKER	Lipa	Borukh Srul		6 months	6 months

40	414			LYS	Itsek Leybovich	Leyb	58	57	59
40	415		1	LYS	Manisa	Itsek	38	37	37
40	416		2	LYS	Leyb	Itsek	21	20	21
40	417		3	LYS	Ikhil Duvid	Itsek		16	18

44	443			LYS	Khaim Gersh Leybovich	Leyb	54	53	55
44	444		1	LYS	Itsek Duvid	Khaim Gersh	30	29	30
44	445		2	LYS	Yos Leyb	Khaim Gersh		12	14
44	446			LYS	Tsal	Itsek Duvid		2 months	2 months

45	454			LYSKER	Moyshe Froim Itskovich	Itsek	37	36	36
45	455			LYSKER	Ikhil	Moyshe Froim		1	1 1/2

Additional doc (item B, residents of places near Nikolayev)

Page number	Census sequential numbering of persons	Surname	Given name	Father’s given name	Doc B: [Age] by appearance/looks
37	367	LYS	Shaya Mordkovich	Mordka	56
37	368	LYS	Mendel	Shaya	22
37	368 [number appears twice]	LYS	Mordka	Shaya	16
37	369	LYS	Yos	Mendel	4

Additional lists

Page number	Census sequential numbering of persons	Number according to revision list	Child number	Surname	Given name	Father’s given name	Additional list: Age
11	166	24		LYSKER	Usher Pinkasovich	Pinkas	46
11	167	24		LYSKER	Khaim Moyshe Leybovich	Leyb	25
11	168	24		LYSKER	Srul Leybovich	Leyb	12
11	169	24		LYSKER	Itsek Leybovich	Leyb	6

12	184	32		LYSKER	Usher Meerovich	Meer	44
12	185	32		LYSKER	Abram Meer	Usher	11
12	186	32		LYSKER	Shulim Meerovich	Meer	18

14	235	56		LYSKER	Leyb Shmulevich	Shmul	53
14	236	56	1?	LYSKER	Khaim	Leyb	33
14	237	56		LYSKER	Zelman	Khaim	5
14	238	56		LYSKER	Meer	Khaim	2
14	239	56	2?	LYSKER	El Yukel	Leyb	15
14	240	56	3	LYSKER	Abrum	Leyb	5

16	301	79		LYSKER	Froim Itsek Borukhovich	Borukh	47

16	317	84		LYS	Volko Khaimovich	Khaim	16

20	424	141		LYS	Yos Yankelevich	Yankel	16
20	425	141		LYS	Berek	Yankel	5
20	426	141		LYS	Moyshe	Yankel	2
20	427	142		LYS	Aba Mordka Gershkovich	Gersh	41
20	428	142		LYS	Itsek	Aba Mordka	2
20	429	142		LYS	Shmul Shayavich (Aba's?)		2
20	430	142		LYS	Tsalel Gershkovich	Gersh	36
20	431	142		LYS	Itsek	Tsalel	7
20	432	142		LYS	Srul	Tsalel	2